The writing has been on the wall for a while now but now it’s become official without being officially announced, the Maxxforce lines of engines produced by International are a failure. At least the larger bore models for class 8 semis. The debacle with Maxxforce EGR engines has costed the company millions while decreasing market share. Thanks to the wise decision to dump EGR and partner with Cummins, International has managed to claw it’s way back to profitably through plant closures and other divestitures. But yet the pain still lingers. Maxxforce engines were supposed to free International from the hassles of dealing with outside suppliers. Building engines in house make sense as the profits stay in house. If you make your own engines you are not at the mercy of an outside vendor who can idle your production lines when they experience problems of their own. This integrated production should allow you to move trucks out the door at a quick pace. With industry backlog at record highs this could lead to an increase in market share. After all, your competitors cant sell a truck they don’t have. Unfortunately for International this wasn’t the case. Warranty costs relating to Maxxforce EGR spiraled while reliability plummeted. Class action lawsuits are now starting. In the trucking word people rarely forget or forgive trucks that don’t perform. Once you lose a customer you have to work very hard to get them back. So what do you do? Time for a rebranding.
I’ve noticed recently on the International website, the Trail Magazine, and the International Youtube channel news regarding the N9 and N10 line of engines. These two “new” engines appear to have replaced all the Maxxforce engines except for the DT and 7 creations. Are they really new? No, they are not. Based on the video below I think they are the same Maxxforce engines as before but this time using SCR from the factory. The International rep in the video alludes to past glories of class leading engines and the need to regain that title while mentioning the N series line are the best of both worlds as they use EGR hardened materials that can only lead to increase life in less demanding SCR situations. We shall see. Unlike when Maxxforce arrived on the scene the N’s arrived with no trumpets blaring. No banners unfurling. No outrages promises have been made. The engines have quietly arrived on the scene hopefully ready to work.
As an unabashed International supporter I hope they can pull this off. I would probably feel different if I was one of the people stuck with a Maxxforce lump but I wasn’t so I’m willing to forgive and forget. Below is a video of engine manufacturing relating to the new N9 and N10.
Personally, I’m happy to see the Maxxforce name leave us. It reminded me to much of the time Homer Simpson changed his name to Max Power, a name he mooched from a hair dryer of all places.
If I remember correctly, International had the same problems when they introduced the V800 engine back in the 1970s. By all accounts that I’ve heard, the V800 was a real boat anchor!
What replaced the Maxxforce 13
So my beloved (I really hate it) MAXXFORCE 9 will now be “re-born” and known as the “N-9”, only that now it won’t be CHOKED on its own exhaust gas (“Advanced” EGR)
¿Will Cummins be the supplier of SCR Systems? Oh, these have their tons of issues too.
Not to mention the poor craftsmanship Navistar puts on the assebly of their trucks.
DT-Series where their last good engines.
Now I call them:
I”ll be happy if they are OUT OF BUSINESS
I like TowStar cause they’re always on the hook
INTERNATIONAL V8 are JUNK
I have 2 T444E’s and they do the job. Yeah sure they are under powered and slow but they do the job well and reliably. They both are fairly low mileage at 200000 miles but they both seem like they will have long lives ahead of them.
Im not sure why every one dislikes them.
The larger bore engines, typically found in the class 8 OTR trucks had many problems. The smaller liter engines like yours behaved much better.
I beg to differ.. the t444e and the original dt engines are legendary.. probably best ever made..
Well guys don’t believe the hipe of the new motors. I bought a 2015 with the N9 (maxforce 10) The truck was a test truck for international and they ran it night and day until it got to 217k. They dropped a brand new crate engine into it (not rebuilt) and sent the old one back for a tear down for inspection. I bought the truck for 60k thinking it has a new engine?? Warranty from international is 2 year or 250k from the inservice date. It now has 307k and the egr cooler leaked over night into cylinder number 6. When I cranked the motor it hydrolocked and now needs a inframe for 14k plus more if there’s head damage, plus more If the injectors got coolant into them, plus more if the dpf filers got coolant into it. So long story short it can cost up to $25,000. International don’t want to help either?? All I can say is SAY AWAY!!! This truck is a 2015 with cummins help with the dpf system. Now I’m forced running my 1.5million truck over the road because the garbage can died
By the way the new motor only has 90k miles… international says the only way to stop this problem is to check the coolant everytime you start and stop the motor. All fluids were full in Phoenix and lost the motor in Bakersfield. STAY AWAY!!
We have 10 MaxxForce DT engines in our fleet and 3 of them needed inframes because #6 had zero compression caused by the leaking EGR cooler contaminating the engine oil and obviously washing down the oil on the cylinder sleeve but why just #6?
This was the exact same failure on all 3 engines. I’m wondering why or how the coolant is getting to #6 cylinder? We do engine oil samples and now when they come back with coolant in the oil we change the EGR cooler right away. It’s a big expensive pain in the butt. One of the 3 engines was covered under warranty but the other 2 are on us for around $15,000.00
Hi Guys.. I can tell you how the coolant gets in.. on the rear of the engine.. there is a tube that runs from the EGR cooler to the intake manifold on the other side.. Its the passage returning the exhaust gases to the intake to be reburned.. so naturally.. if the cooler fails internally.. the coolant is going to feed from the core inside the cooler to the intake VIA this tube.. #6 cylinder is the rear most cylinder.. so it fills up with coolant…
I have an 08 max 10 that’s pissing antifreeze out the exhaust as soon as truck starts. I have owned for 2 years with no problems. Burns no oil and just hit 100000 miles. Does anyone have any idea? Thank you
The state dot owns several internationals with maxforce engines and they have proven to be junks. Perfect example we have a 09 international with the maxforce engine and already we’ve had to replace the ITVP (intake throttle position sensor because it went into limp mode and it wouldn’t allow to regen or force regen using a laptop so I replaced the the throttle valve and performed a regen process and that was successful and all warning lights on dash clear and the truck ran very well for about 2 days now it’s back and running like hell and the ECM flashe a dtc for VGT performance fault and a dtc for cylinder no.1 balance max limit exceeded and it’s sputtering through the turbo charge return hose and mind you this truck has only 39000 miles 3800 hours so you tell what think?
Have you ever tried a fuel additive to make the diesel burn a bit hotter?
Can someone give me some advise abt the
Maxxforce GDT310 9.3 310 HP Engine.
Looking at a used (10,000 miles) 2011 Monaco 36 ft. motor home. Unit is in almost new condition. The drive train is the Maxxforce 10, 350 HP Big block 9.3 Turbo diesel, with a Allison 6 speed trans. Is this the same engine that has all the failure problems in the large trucks, or is the RV version of the engine any better. Love the RV, but after reading about all the engine problems, am rethinking the purchase. Let me know if anyone can relate to this engine.
The Maxxforce 13 is what typically was found in Class 8 trucks and was the engine just about everyone hated. I never heard much about the 10 having the same run of problems. I believe it was more closely related to the DT line of Internationals engines which are generally considered bulletproof.
Did you buy the motorhome? And have you had any problems? I am looking to buy a 2012 HR with the MAX 10. What do you suggest?
I have a 40 ft Monaco, have put 10k on it since purchase, now has 47k miles. The exhaust regen comes on occassionally but I have had no problem with the engine.
I was reluctant to buy but got a warranty.
Micheal I am in the same place. I am thinking about a 2012 Monaco 32PBS with a 300HP, MaxxForce 7. Is this engine a lemon??
I have driven about 4 Navistar Maxxforce 7 diesels in IC full size school buses. They are a constant hassel re the EGR and DPF system. Especially bad in typical Central Canada winter weather. The hyper EGR only emissions cleaning system causes unburnt diesel oil to wash past the piston rings contaminating the crankcase lube oil. Requires additional oil chages but viscosity goes for shit causing unintended wear. They routinely eat up expensive sensors, EGR valves and EGR coolers. Post warranty get prepared to pay bigtime. Also forced regens are too frequent and cannot be done when sensors go faulty. Avoid the Maxxforce 7 motor.
It all started when the VP of Engineering (Pat Charbonneau) took over. He couldn’t engineer his way out of a wet paper bag. The 6.0 liter was his baby and it turned out to be a huge piece of junk. Things only got worse from their. This maybe just one man’s opinion, but others share it.
My son who lives in Saskatoon Canada bought a international truck which has the “v8 diesel ,max force 7 ,he has nothing but trouble ,breaks down every week ,it’s had a new engine ,and still breaks down complete load of rubbish . And the well known supplier in Saskatoon just aren’t willing to help .now it’s just parked up and he’s still paying for it .
The VP of Navistar Engine Engineering, Pat Charbonneau, fathered most of the reliability issues with their product. This clown didn’t know the difference between a crankshaft and a toilet plunger, as witnessed by the products made while he was in charge.
I bought a used 2012 RV with the Maxxforce 10 359hp TD. With only 36,000 miles on it. Within the next 6,000 miles I’ve spent four days in two different international deal rv with DPF and EGR problems from calling for regents that will not clear the code to the MIL light flashing and killing the power. After spending $3,000 they still don’t know what’s wrong. I think I do after reading all of this!
Was your rv a holiday rambler trip?
I have a 2015 Maxxforce 7 4300.
@54k miles, there saying the engine needs to me replaced.. Normal? Your Thoughts?
I’m planing on buying a truck with the same engine.
Would you be able to contact me and share the negative and positive points on that engine.
The truck I’m planing to buy is a 2014 with 175 k miles
Thanks in advance for reading it.
I have a 2014 Lone star max force so far only thing that happend was a metal coolant line on top of motor had a pin hole leak looks like from rust I bought mine about 6 month ago with 360,000 miles so far good
International is offering me a deal on a 2015 medium sized truck with a 7.6 L motor L 6 I think with only 15,000 miles what’s my options if the motor goes out
Good Morning, I am thinking of purchasing a 2013 Tiffin 28BR motorhome with a Navistar maxforce 7 diesel produced by international. It is the perfect size and floorplan for my wife and I. Is it the same engine that are having all the problems?
Hey Mike :
I could’ve written your post word for word. Did you end up buying the 28BR ? Interesting and terribly concerning reading about these MaxxForce diesels.
My MaxxForce7 engine has been great 20K with no real problems. Its in a Monaco Vesta. I think 99% of the bad press came from the next couple generations of the 10’s and 13’s.
I work for a utility company, have a purchase agreement with IH. Have had 3 engine failures within a month or two of expired warranty. 2016s. At least 25000 each and a month later had coolant in oil on all 3. They didn’t replace egr coolers because they passed a static pressure test, another 6k each. Have 3 down right now with egr coolers starting to fail. Coolant in oil. Working on diagnosis of an N10. $47000 since December and to dealer 7 times in 8 weeks. 20 codes. They say another egr coolers, would make 3rd this year. 135000 mile paperweight. New IH chassis with Cummins ordered. IH says 70 psi back pressure is normal. Only supposed to run 34 psi boost, running Up to 56. Blowing boots of dad tubes.RUN away as fast as you can!!!
Hi. PLEASE HELP WITH KNOWLEDGE
Can you help with all this talk about a Navistar Maxxforce 7 engine in a 2013 Tiffin 32BR coach ?
Is this engine a bad deal, Should I rethink buying this beautiful coach? because of the
It has 24000 miles on it with no problem, but I have heard bad things.
Is it a pile of junk as I have read from some people or is this just a small few ??
Please tell me the honest truth. Thanks Brian
I own a 2013 Breeze 32 BR with the Navistar Maxxforce 7 engine and bought it from a happy couple who were trading up who said they never has a problem. We have driven it 20K miles and it has performed perfectly.
If you get into the real details on this engine it appears much of the fuss is being made on the engine with the larger bore for class 8 semi’s. Rumors can get out of hand. Recommend you call Tiffin and see what they say…they are straight shooters.
Anyone have any idea why my max 10 is pissing out antifreeze from exhaust. I know they use for regeneration but why too much comes out as soon as truck starts. Just starting out of the blue. Only 100000 on the truck. No dash lights are on. Thank you
I am looking at a 2013 int truck with the maxi force 7 it is bad the block needs replacing, i found a used motor for 9 grand, so 14 grand plus install, is that a good deal?
I just purchased two IH trucks. A 2011 4300 with a MF7 with 160k and about 5300 engine hours
And a 2010 4400 with a MF DT motor 92k and about 7300 hours.
Both trucks at least for the moment seem to be running good. Neither of them is by any stretch of the imagination is a powerhouse.
Im going to be changing fluids and filters and hope for the best so it seems.
Id ask for advice here but Im thinking the only thing you guys would tell me is to put for sale signs back on them.
I am looking at purchasing a 2012 Int with the 6.4L Maxxforce can not find much for reviews Any suggestions
I have a maxxforce 9 year 2014 no problem until now someone have a one like mine ?? Maybe this engine is good ? Or I just a lucky??
Does anyone have experience with the navistar N9 engine? I have a 2015 international 4400 series we use to haul block/shingles. We’ve had nothing but emissions & injector problems.. any advice? Is a 2001 International 4400 DT466 a better route? Thanks!
I am also looking to purchase a MINT 2012 Tiffin 28BR with 20,600 miles on it, I have run the vin and it is the Max force 7 6.4 V8WH produced on Aug 17th 2011 (Not sure what the WH means)
And when we were getting reading for the test drive it appeared the coolant level was low and we added 1.5 gal… we do not know where the coolant went. If this common???
Mike in Washington state
I’m looking at buying a a motor. 2012 year model Monaco, Diplomat 43′.
9.3L MAXXFORCE 10 diesel engine with 405HP, 1,250 lb.-ft of torque
Did you buy the Tiffin that had the Maxxforce? If so, has it worked out oaky?
I’m looking at a dump truck with a 9.3 international. It’s a 2005 model. Is this the same engine everyone is having problems with or was it built before the all the emissions requirements?